| Guin
was in Cheryl Dunye's film The Watermelon Woman, had a cameo
in the hit Chasing Amy and can next be seen in Preaching
To The Perverted and Latin Boys Go To Hell. She's slated
to star in Manicure directed by Sasha Levinson in which
she plays a porn writer who gets involved in a mystery.
She also just completed writing the script for the film
adaptations of American Psycho, based on the novel by Brett
Easton Ellis, with Mary Harron, who directed I Shot Andy
Warhol. And she is co-writing the script of '50's pin-up
Betty Page's life, also with HArron, as well as playing
Betty in the film.
I always enjoy talking to Guin because just when you think
she's going to dish out another funny one-liner, she surprises
you with a very thoughtful and thought-provoking response.
She projects that strange mix of self-confidence, self-awareness
and self-consciousness all happening at the same time. While
always hesitant about giving interviews, she admitted that
many times during our conversation she forgot that it was
going to be in print, which of course means that she was
particularly candid.
Ari Gold (Interviwer):We could probably sit here and have
one of our infamous chat-downs but I'm thinking I should
ask some interviewy type questions, like, "Do you consider
yourself more a writer or an actress?"
Guinevere:Let's do both. Are you asking me that?
AG:Sure
GT:I would say that I'm trying to be both. Writing is something
that I would do regardless of whether or not I was getting
paid. I've kept journals since I was nine years old. It's
just an automatic extension. It's therapeutic. It's what
I do, it's how I think. I express myself better in the written
word than in the spoken word. I have less Tourettes in writing
than I do in the spoken word!
AG: You're nicer in writing
GT:I mean it more. I'm kind of a control freak and there's
so much control that you have in writing. Every word is
yours and you can go back and think about what you've written.
With acting, I feel much less in control, A) because of
editing and B) because of what comes out at any given moment
and how the camera is making you look... it can totally
affct how someone reacts to you. I'm new at it. Everytime
I do it I fel like I take leaps and bounds of learning.
As it stands now, since Go Fish came out I've really made
a living off of writing. Besides the two scripts I wrote
with Mary, I've writeen for The Advocate and Glamour. But
you get so much more attention for acting. I dont know what
I feel about that - except I love the attention! People
to this day don't know that I wrote Go Fish with Rose Troche.
I mean that was the hard part!
AG: What was doing 'Latin Boys Go To Hell' like?
GT:I love Ella Troyano's work. She's a great director and
she got me to do something that I had never done on film
which is to just freak out. The character I play is all
about being over the top. So it was really fun, because
if I have a failing as an actress, it's never being over
the top. I'm always seeing myself in film after I do something
and being amazed that thats what I did. I realise that what
I thought I was giving is so much less that what I was actually
giving. It's difficult for me because in real life I'm kind
of a reserved person. And so I don't know what makes me
think that once a camera is turned on, thats just going
to go away.
AG:Acting is a very vulnerable-making experience.
GT: My theory about why famous actors notoriously have such
huge egos is because to be and actor is about humiliating
yourself and being rejected over and over. I was having
a meeting with a casting director recently and I was watching
her assistant open manila envelopes, take out a stack of
head shots, look at them for two seconds and throw them
in the garbage. But then she goes "I really shouldn't
do this, but would you look at this head shot?" And
shes like, "What was this girl thinking?" And
I'm thinking, "Who's laughing at my head shot, Who's
got it up on the walls with a mustache drawn on it?"
[laughter]
AG:What was it like interviewing actors for American Psycho?
GT:There were actors and actresses who refused to be a part
of the reading of the script because they thought it was
misogynist. There were three or four women who were like
"No way am I touching this!" And maybe a couple
of men, but the men who did want to be involved did need
to have conversations with us about whether it was woman-hating.
And I, of course, said that I think it's profoundly man-hating,
which they laughed uncomfortably at.
But that project is interesting in terms of how Mary and
I had been asked to write it together and her to direct
it. It gets a lot of people off the hook because Mary made
a movie about a killing lesbian and I am a killing lesbian!
[laughs]. But now we're going to be in the weird position
of defending what so many feminists believe to be a really
misogynist book.
AG:Do you see the film that you're writing as a departure
from the book?
GT:It definately is because we took out so much of the violence.
The book gets really grisly. We tried to slant it more towards
satire and making fun of the men that it's about - in particiular,
the main character who's a serial killer who predominately
kills women. He also kills homeless people. He just preys
on the weak. But I think theres a whole irony to the book
that you can get or not get.
AG:Will that also be true of the film?
GT:Yes. Theres always a fine line in representing anything
- especially something controversial like killing women
- whether you're celebrating whats you're representing or
showing it to be the horrible thing that it is. We already
did one televsion interview about the film and people were
saying "Don't you think that this story is hateful
towards women?" And I just freaked out and said, "Whens
the last time somebody asked Quentin Tarantino why he has
to say"nigger" every two minutes? He especially
doesn't have to defend anything when it comes to women.
Are we more responsible for women than he is?" I think
I'm going to end up sounding really insane, because I get
so mad at even the position of defending women across the
nation. I end up spending so much time talking about feminist
issues rather than talking about how we made this movie.
AG: That happened with Go Fish too
GT:Thats right. So much time talking about lesbians in general
"as a people!". Not the five that we intended
to represent in the story - that we made up! That's what
you get for calling yourself a feminist. Meanwhile, I do
get my head sawed off with a chainsaw in the part that I
play in the movie. And I do play a total bimbo. So I have
to defend acting in this role as well as writing it!
AG:Speaking about defending, do you want to say anything
about your role in Chasing Amy, both in the movie and behind
the scenes?
GT:One of the interesting things about Chasing Amy is that
it came out at the same time as All Over Me. To me, All
Over Me, while not a flawless movie, does capture something
so real about being so young and queer and being outside
whatever is around you, trying to understand that and get
power from it, and be strong enough to accept it and stand
up with it and for it. And at the same time, Chasing Amy
comes out, which is, no matter what you want to say about
the movie, one heterosexual man's idea of what lesbian sexuality
is. And it's so ironic, but the world has embraced Chasing
Amy as emotional truth.
AG: Yeah, the reviews are all like "the most truthful
romantic comedy of the 90's"
GT:janet Maslin, in The New York Times said that All Over
Me was self-indulgent, emotional tripe but that Chasing
Amy really gets somewhere - like how people interact with
each other in emotions and relationships. But it's just
unfair to compare them. Call me angry and PC but nobody
even brings up the fact that one directors a lesbian representing
lesbians and ones a straight man representing lesbians.
And also the tricky thing is that a lot of lesbians like
it, people whose opinions I respect. And I actually think
that the relationship that rings true is between the two
men. It's very daring in the way that it shows two really
good male friends, and one bring jealous of the other one
having a girlfriend. That really has gone unrepresented
in film. Actually I think it would have been a really interesting
story if she was just a slut.
AG: Well the movie often conflates the two.
GT:Exactly. Which is a little bit problematic! I mean, I
know some lesbian sluts but...
AG:Actually I wanted to know how you felt about being used
to legitimise this movie?
GT:It puts me in a weird situation. I don't need to love
somebody's art to continue to be friends with them. I don't
need to take this movie personally against Kevin and Scott,
or blame then for the way my name always comes up. People
just know that I know them. But I've been asked if I had
an affair with one of them. And I'm like, "I am a slut,
but I am actually a lesbian to!" I become the character
in the film.
AG:...who finds it very easy to just give up her sexual
identity for a man. GT: My defence for anyone who would
say "How could you be in that movie?" is; have
you ever not had a dime to your name, walked to the set
of a movie and had someone say "Do you want to get
paid to say this monologue?" And what are you going
to say? There are ongoing moral/political dilemmas that
one faces being an actor and honestly, I've auditioned for
way more offensive parts than that tiny part in Chasing
Amy. And I would have done them if I had gotten them, because
I wanted the job and because reading a script in which parts
for women aren't offensive in some way, is the exception
rather than the rule. I've actually gone to auditions thinking
"What am I going to do if I get this part? How much
am I going to get paid to do this?" It's going to come
down to that. Like if its only $15,000 forget it. But if
they're going to give me $50,000 maybe I should put that
whole fucking political thing aside and get paid.
AG:...for a change
GT:Yeah, for a change. Part of being who I am is to wonder,
"Is my career where it is and not much huger because
I'm just a lesbian to so many people?"
AG:Didn't Paper Magazine call you the lesbian parker posey
of the indie film world?
GT:The question was raised if I could be the lesbian parker
posey! They're not sure. It might be someone else who's
a lesbian Parker Posey. I didn't even get the title officially!
Theres a way in which we're always deciding if a lesser
compromise will yield a greater gain. For me to do a bunch
of movies that are slightly offensive, then maybe I'll be
a famous actress, instead of a fakely famous actress who's
an out lesbian. That has so much more power then me being
my broke little ranting self who won't do any movies. The
whole Ellen thing weirded me out because it seemes like
the longer someone stays in the closet, the more credit
and kudos they get when they come out. Nobody ever says
"Well why didn't she come out years ago?" On the
other hand, her coming out now means so much more and so
many more people start to talk about lesbians and representation.
So I can't really fault her because even it was out of accidental
cowardice, she did actually do something momentous by virtue
of being closeted for so long.
AG:I remember you telling me, "Maybe I should go back
into the closet so I can have a big, splashy coming out
when I'm more famous!"
GT:The thing is that you can be so lamely half-assedly in
the closet for so long. But once you're out..nobody's going
to go back in.
AG:You think?
GT:Well, it's true for men more than it is for women. I
suppose, if I really wanted to make a show of it and marry
a man, everyone would be happy to believe it. It's got to
be well-orchestrated with the publicist.
AG:If you go back into the closet right now, by the time
the next batch of films come out, the interview would open
with: "Guinevere Turner and her husband were sipping
iced teas in the backyard of their estate in Connecticut;Guin,
who first broke into movies by playing a lesbian in the
controversial film Go Fish, was rumoured to have an affair
or two in her day..!"
GT:Then there was that Chasing Amy thing and that really
confirmed it!
AG:I can't believe we're sitting here plotting your career
path to go back in the closet! Do you want to say anything
about the Betty Page film you've co-written and will satr
in?
GT:Poor Betty Page, who is now 74, 75. She had such outrageous
trouble with who reprsents her and people tricking her.
And she's not particularly into getting re-famous. What
she says all the time is "I don't understand, whats
the big deal?" So the reason our project is stalled
is because we've continually dealt with new representatives
of hers who have different issues about what they want,
how they want her to be represented, and how they want to
make money off how shes represented.
It's very complicated because theres a lot of things that
shes only recently talked about in her life. Like, she was
gang-raped in Times Square. She was sexually abused by her
father. But we certainly don't want to turn her into a tragic
figure. We totally celebrate her. She's an amazing character.
her life story is amazing because she was brave enough,
even after being gang-raped in Times Square to still live
in New York on her own, get married, have boyfriends, be
a dominatrix, pin-up model, and feel fine about it and walk
down the streets as this gorgeous American beauty while
being constantly harassed. That was unheard of.
AG:She's heroic
GT:Definately heroic. The horrible thing is that she has
never made any money off of anything shes done. And she
just becomes a bigger and bigger icon.
AG:And more and more exploited
GT:She's exploited more now than when she was allegedly
being exploited by getting photographed naked.
AG:Do you want to meet her?
GT: Oh I'd love to meet her. I've spent two years of my
life researching this woman.
AG:You can't just go and find her?
GT:We know she's in California, but she's only been "found"
in the last six years. I have met and spoken with her brother.
But we have already been so misrepresented to him about
what we're doing.
AG:You probably just sound like everyone else who says they've
"got her best interests at heart".
GT:Well, think about how terrifying interviews are. However
you want to interpret what I say and whatever context you
want to put it in, is out of my control. But whoever reads
it will believe it.
AG:What was said in a bout of sarcasm could end up sounding
totally sincere
GT:I just recently did an interview where almost the entire
thing was printed with me speaking in quotes, which is just
outrageous because the woman didn't tape record our conversation
and we talked for an hour and a half. She put an exlamation
point at the end of almost everything that she pretended
I said and it was horrible!!!
The funny thing is that the woman who interviewed me was
Irish and there are quotes where she actually attributes
really Irish expressions to me. She had me saying "So
I thought I'd have a go!", I never say "I thought
I'd have a go!". And she also quoted me saying something
negative about someone I know who avidly reads the magazine,
and who did a huge favour for me. It was my story of going
to the dominatrix at The Nutcracker Suite when I was doing
Preaching To The Perverted. I told this interviewer that
at the end of the whole experience at this S&M dungeon,
the dominatrix asked me "So, do you have a boyfriend?"
And I said "No, I'm gay" - thinking, "Now
that I've whipped your slaves penis, my gayness will be
no big deal to you". And she and her slave seemed weirded
out by that! And that's kind of how I told the story. But
the way this writer quoted me made me sound like I thought
they were really homophobic.
AG:Because you're just talking about an irony.
GT:Right. I wasn't bad-mouthing her. It's the funny punchline
to the story. But that was an interesting case because I
realised that since I had been in this semi-sexual context
with these two people, very oddly removed but sexual, that
somehow something about me being gay just made them feel
tricked a little bit. Like, maybe this man doesn't get off
on lesbians whipping him, only straight women whipping him.
He doesn't want what he perceives to be real man-hating,
just pretend man-hating.
AG:I know that you've said you don't want to talk about
the fact that you grew up in a cult.
GT:When people ask me if I grew up in a cult I lie and say
"I didn't grow up in a cult". I started out lying,
then I got bored of lying so I started telling the truth.
And now I'm back to lying.
AG:So do you not even want me to mention this?
GT:Okay, you can mention that I grew up in a cult but you
can also mention that I don't like to talk about it. I stopped
talking about it because it's always misrepresented and
its always sensationalised in a way that makes me feel cheap.
You just feel embarrassed. I think about my mom. That was
her life, that was me life. That's not just a cute little
fact about me. That's a whole deep other story.
AG:One last thing, Miss Turner, weren't you reportedly dating
k.d.lang?
GT:You're an asshole, whos reporting that?
AG:Me. Your friends
GT:Did you make a list of all the things that I decided
I don't want to talk about? kd.lang, the cult, Chasing Amy...
AG:Tell all!
GT:No, I'm not going to say anything.
AG:No?
GT:You can say that I said "No comment".
AG:Can I say that you said I could say "No comment"?
GT:Yes. |
